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Thoughts on string clearance
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Author:  LanceK [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:10 am ]
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Where would you consider this set up, string clearance from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string.
High, medium or low?


At the first fret, low E and high E .026
At the 12th fret Low E and High E .065


Thanks!
Author:  Dave White [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:32 am ]
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Lance,

For me personally on an acoustic guitar I'd say that was ultra low - but then I'm probably at the extreme of the distribution and like the better tone (to my ear anyway) that you get with the strings higher. My personal guitars are set at around 0.08" high E and 0.109" low E at the 12th fret. When Martin Simpson played the guitar with that set up he considered it low!!

But then in the US I know lots of people like the action really low (and probably in the UK too) having come from the world of electrics where the volume and tone come out of another "box" rather than the "digital control" i.e your fingers Dave White38933.5654861111
Author:  John How [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:49 am ]
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I try to set my nut slot to be the same height as the frets (probably usually just a smidge higher) and my 12 fret string height is probably a little higher that yours.
PS, a smidge is a very very small distance.John How38933.5763657407
Author:  Don Williams [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:49 am ]
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You didn't say what guage strings you are setting it up for...?
Author:  Andy Zimmerman [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:52 am ]
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I have been setting up with the same measurements as Dave
(Light strings(
Author:  WalterK [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:33 am ]
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Hi Lance:

The setting at . .065
Depending on the type of playing is desired, I would definetly set the strings at .065 to .085.
This should allow for the style of player.
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:34 am ]
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I would consider your set up low, but not ultra low.
I don't measure the first fret string height, I just go as low as I can by trial and sometimes error. I like low action, but at the 12th fret my low E is higher than the high E.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:35 am ]
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Lance ... first fret distances .. push down the string between 2 and 3 fret .. how much gap at the first fret under the string - low to high - not much, like 5 thou to almost nothing. 12th fret - high E - 4 4.5 64ths - thats 60-70 thou, low E 85-90. much lower and if you hit it more than lightly it will rattle, especially a low G, 3rd fret E string.
Author:  LanceK [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:38 am ]
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Tony, if you recall, how did my dread feel last weekend?
I thought it could be a little lower.
LanceK38933.6103587963
Author:  Wade Sylvester [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:42 am ]
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I just checked my latest that has Med.Light strings and it is real close to what you said there Lance. Maybe a tad higher at the 12th. This feels nice and low to me but still no buzzes when I play aggresively.
I think if you can get it lower than that without buzzing, you have a pretty nice neck/fret setup there!

Also Lance, There is a little trick I learned from Harry Becker, Bill Cumpiano's partner. He holds down the string at the 2nd fret and touches at the first fret to see if there is a slight space between the 1st and the string. I guess it should be almost touching, but not quite.
Are those mesurments what you have been shooting for?

Wade
Author:  TonyKarol [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:42 am ]
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You know ... beer was involved, wasnt it ?!?!?!!!!. If you have the numbers you are talking about at the first fret, they are high for me. Before I started doing the check the gap while holding down at 3, I used to feeler gauge to 18 thou. I measured Bob Bennetts Ryan one time, his was 16 to 11 thou .. about what you will get with the gap method - do this first, then set the 12th fret because lowering here will affect the 12th measurement.
Author:  LanceK [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:49 am ]
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Thanks Tony, Wade, yes that is what im shooting for.

Author:  Todd Rose [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:52 am ]
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I do the clearance over the first fret like many people do.   See Frank Ford's explanation on Frets.com (no point in me explaining it all over again and not doing as good a job as Frank). The bottom of the nut slots will end up just a smidge higher than the frets. That smidge will be slightly more for the 6th string, getting progressively smaller till the 1st string difference is such a small smidge you might call it a nanosmidge.

The reason for making the bottom of the nut slots a smidge higher than the frets is so that when you fret a string, the dead length of string (between where you fret and the nut) is not sitting on the frets, where it could buzz if it vibrates sympathetically with a note you're playing.

A second reason is that it gives you just a smidge of leeway as far as allowing for some wear on the nut slots before you've got to shim or replace the nut.

This "smidge higher than the frets" nut action, if done carefully, will give you a very nice, easy-to-play feel down near the head end of the neck regardless of the action height you choose at the 12th fret. Playing an F barre chord, for example, will be like butter. No matter how high a player wants their action up the neck, I can't see why anyone would want it higher than it has to be at the nut; that won't give you a cleaner sound, it only makes it hard to play and throws off the intonation.

Author:  Jim Watts [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:57 am ]
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Lance,
I'd consider it high at the nut for all and a touch low at 12th for the low e any way.
I shoot for about .011 clearance at the nut on the low-e and about .008 on the high-e with light strings.
I stack up layers of aluminum tape and sitck it to the top of the first fret and file until the string just touches.Jim_W38933.6247453704
Author:  Wade Sylvester [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:00 am ]
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Thanks Todd, Tony and Lance!
This is good stuff!
I hope those lerkers are listening..

Wade
Author:  npalen [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:48 am ]
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Why is it that some folks prefer to have all six strings same action height at the 12th while others prefer higher on the base side? Seems to me that the treble strings should be set lower since they can be without buzzing. Just a matter of personal preference, playing style etc.?
Author:  Jimmie D [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:57 am ]
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Lance, On his website,Bryan Kimsey has a great tutorial on setups. http://www.bryankimsey.com/music/lutherie.htm
Author:  RCoates [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:33 am ]
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I've been using the info off of Bryan Kimsey's site too. whithin his recommendations I've been able to find a setup I really like and others seem to as well.



Setup

He also has good info on relief...




Relief
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:54 am ]
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Thank you very much Ronn!
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:30 am ]
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how one sets should reflect the players preferences, style, touch, etc. it is a very individual thing. thus before i set up i will at least question the player, but i prefer to see and hear them play a few tunes.

that being said, for heavy handed strumers i will usually start out with first fret to string clearances of .016" on the treble e and .024" on the bass e. at the 12th fret 3-4/64 and 5-6/64 treble e and bass e respectively.

for more subtle finger style players figures around .008-9 and .016-.018 at the first and 2-3/64 and 4-5/64 at the 12th are not unusual.










crazymanmichael38935.4007291667
Author:  Dave White [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:19 am ]
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[QUOTE=crazymanmichael] how one sets should reflect the players preferences, style, touch, etc. it is a very individual thing.

for more suble finger style players the figures around 008-9 and .016-.018 at the first and 2-3/64 and 4-5/64 at the 12th.
[/QUOTE]

Micahel,

I agree with you 100% that it is totally an individual thing. But just as a comment, the leaflet that comes with the Stew Mac action gauge (fabulous tool) states that for the "2001 Fender American Vintage Strat" specs for the 12th fret are 4.8/64 at the low E and 4.15/64 at the high E. So your light fingerstylist set up would find the strat heavy going indeed

Not at all a criticism but it just demonstrates why I'm very much at the extreme of the distribution, and just how individual it all is. Vive la difference
Author:  Todd Rose [ Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:55 am ]
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Crazyman, what advantage do you see in higher action at the nut?

Has anyone had a customer who has specifically requested higher action at the nut?
Author:  npalen [ Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:10 am ]
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Here are some thoughts on action height from Bryan Kimsey's web site.
action
Author:  RCoates [ Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:54 pm ]
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Yeah good site!

Here's another link to some good info. I don't agree 100%, but who am I. The point is there is some good info that will let you make an informed decision.

More set up info from BK's site.
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